(From a laundromat in Anchorage. Remind me to copyright the slogan "Anchorage: The Scenic Bakersfield!")
One sad but interesting development since the end of the second World War is the death of pacifism as an organized movement. Well, at least I find it interesting (Nicholson Baker's "Human Smoke" is a particularly good read if you're interested too).
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In the course of reading a book about Henry Ford, I was reminded about the Peace Ship debacle prior to World War I and the central role that religious groups used to play in the pacifist movement. And it wasn't just groups like the Quakers, whose stance on nonviolence remains well-known today.
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Major, mainstream Protestant religious groups – especially, curiously enough, evangelicals – the Catholic church, major Jewish organizations, and the like were all strongly associated with the anti-war movement before World War II.
Part of the difference today stems from the Hitler, Imperial Japan, and fascism making war a moral crusade that religiously inclined people felt safe getting behind. War is not a moral or ethical dilemma if one conceives of the potential target or opponent as the Third Reich. Unfortunately this has served as little more than a straw man since 1945, as whoever the western nations of the world feel like reducing to rubble happens to be "just like Hitler," coincidentally enough. Attempts to recreate the black-and-white morality of World War II in modern conflicts is not only idiotic, but seemingly mandatory on the part of political leaders.
What stands out to me is how much, in the United States, mainstream Christianity has bent and molded itself around the preferences and prejudices of the one demographic – white people, particularly conservative and rural white people – with which it is still popular. We know from all varieties of survey data that Americans are identifying with organized religion less than ever today, and even among identifiers the percentage of Protestants and Catholics is declining. Smaller religions like Mormonism, Hinduism, Buddhism, "New Age" belief systems, and so on are all growing at the expense of traditionally common Christian denominations.
Not to be accused of concern trolling, but it seems like a religion should have a belief system that tells followers or potential followers "This is the One True Path. Join us. If you're not interested, piss off, because the One True Path does not change for anyone." In practice we see American Christianity, particularly the evangelical variety, becoming hard to distinguish from a Support Our Troops rally, which makes sense when you realize both organizations are aiming at the same demographic.
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Religion seems to have ceded, at least in our case, the moral argument against violence and war. I haven't been a practicing Catholic in decades, but I do like the fact that the incumbent Pope is willing to remind his flock that there are things they should be opposed to beyond just abortion and The Gays – poverty, war, injustice, and other things that fly in the face of the Dignity of Life and Humankind thing that they care about collectively.
I may not be the kind of person to whom organized religion appeals, but nonetheless I understand the potential it has to be a positive force in the world and in the lives of individuals who do find it appealing. It would be nice, in that light, if American churches were willing to take some kind of moral stance against something other than the convenient target groups that its core supporters already hate. It's safe and easy to bash abortion from the pulpit; how about branching out and asking the congregation what exactly it needs all those guns for, or why they don't mind that an alarming number of unarmed black men seem to end up dead when they encounter police. I don't disrespect right-wing Christianity because of the beliefs per se, as there are tons of belief systems in the world I find ridiculous personally. I disrespect it because it tells the faithful what they want to hear while remaining silent about what they need to hear. "The customer is always right" is a poor strategy in this case.
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jtr says:
American Christianity seems to really have very little in common with the teachings of Christ at this point. Pretty much the entire point Jesus was trying to get across was to love one another, yet Christianity is the number one excuse used to hate gays. Jesus did not pull any punches in denouncing those who collect riches rather than helping the poor, yet the most vocally Christian politicians are also the ones who work the hardest to boost the rich at the expense of the poor. One has to wonder how many of this country's "Christian" population has so much as glanced at the gospels they loudly claim to be guided by.
Jado says:
The bank accounts of these religions would argue with you – Creflo Dollar is getting a private jet
c u n d gulag says:
This is why I tell people that, while I do somewhat believe in a "God," I sure as hell don't believe in religion.
More people have died due to religious wars – at least until WWII which, as you said Ed, was fully justifiable, since the Nazis were about as purely evil as just about any group you could find throughout history – than for any other cause(s).
The analogy I use, is that we kill each other over owners manuals.
Any car – like any religion – will take you where you (believe) you want to go: be it Disney World, Peoria, or Heaven.
So essentially, what we keep killing one other over, are every religion's owners manual.
The Bible, the Quran, etc…
"You call that a car?
And you call THAT an owners manual?
HA!
Here, let me show you a real car, and a real owners manual!!
What?
You mock my car and my car's manual! I WILL KILL YOU, YOU HEATHEN/INFIDEL DOG!!!!!"
Oh, and our American conservatives always use WWII comparisons to make their political criticisms – a war, mind you, that they didn't really want our country to fight in, since the were isolationists at that time (THAT'S certainly changed, hasn't it?).
Every Democratic politician – particularly Presidents – are either Hitler-like tyrants, or Chamberlain-like appeasers.
And if they're not Hitler, then they're Lenin/Stalin/Mao/Castro Commie.
Godwin didn't create his "law" for nothing!
Godwin's law:
"Godwin's Law (or Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies) is an Internet adage asserting that "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1 "— that is, if an online discussion (regardless of topic or scope) goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will compare someone or something to Hitler or Nazism."
And that's why in our Reich-Wingers "minds," President Obama is a heartless and brutal tyrant like Hitler at home one minute, but a mewling Chamberlain-like pussy-cat in dealing with other countries, the next.
Consistency isn't exactly one of their strong-suits – cognitive dissonance, is.
Jesse says:
Welcome to Skanchorage!
Jesse says:
On-topic comment: wasn't it convenient how God changed his mind and decreed that the Latter-day Saints shouldn't practice polygamy about the same time Utah's statehood vote was coming around?
Skipper says:
"When I was a kid I asked my father what religion was. He said 'Son, nobody really knows how we got here or what happens to us after we die. Some day, someone is going to come along and tell you they know exactly how we got here and what happens after we die. As soon as they tell you that, they're going to ask you for money. That's religion.'" –Source, unfortunately, forgotten.
Anubis Bard says:
The vast majority of humans are actually pretty reluctant to kill fellow humans. That's why we have to go to such great lengths to de-humanize anyone we're supposed to kill or whose killing we're supposed to applaud. (Nazis, savages, etc.) But that whole de-humanizing thing is pretty incompatible with the universalizing aspects of religions – like Christ's love your fellow man preaching, or the Unitarians or any other set of teachings that stress the common humanity angle.
Christ's most radical teaching – that we should resist those who would set us against one another and instead look after one another – is an extremely dangerous and revolutionary challenge to the status quo. Him they nailed to a cross, but ours is a more sophisticated age.
Here's a sketch I just made up for a movie/novel/video game/television show: Here's our hero(ine); terrible things happen that justify a violent response; righteous violence ensues; things are resolved. Let me know if you've seen it. I know I have. And that is the great cultural narrative that our myth-industry has been imprinting upon our brains – inoculating us against any peacenik Jesus that would have the audacity to preach an absurdity like "pacifism."
mothra says:
Um, well, this would be great, but you haven't done your research:
http://www.umc.org/what-we-believe/political-community
This was regarding the war in Iraq, but the referenced churches have generally the same stance regarding war in general:
http://www.beliefnet.com/News/2003/03/Faith-Groups-Positions-On-War-With-Iraq.aspx#
I'm just saying that not ALL Christian churches have been gung ho on war.
charluckles says:
A strange coincidence. Anchorage is the city who's citizen's blatantly ignorant and hypocritical practicing of right wing religion and politics drove me in the completely opposite direction.
democommie says:
Wars are about "getting even" for some dastardly act perpetrated by one group against another–or some other stuff that needs the fig leaf (like OIL). The thing is, there's no such thing as getting even. I figured that out a long time ago and I'm certainly not a pacifist.
Just the other day, I had someone I'm acquainted with put me on their "prayer list" because I was kvetching to someone else about my body's betrayal of my beautiful mind. As usual, I bit my tongue rather than being honest and being perceived as rude. I did, however, get something out of the exchange. I will try, the next time someone tells me that, "Prayer really works!" that their statement is patently false–else they would have burst into flames as soon as they uttere that platitude as I began praying fervently for just such an outcome–to no avail.
Skepticalist says:
This reminds me of the "What Would Jesus Bomb?" T-shirts.
I had a preacher neighbor who had no idea the level of my disgust with his idea of religion or any for that matter. He thought war was good for the church and the economy.
How many times have we heard that what this country needs is a good war?
ZeroInMyOnes says:
Religious institutions can be utilized as tax-free lobbying platforms. Probably no accident that houses of worship have become more political; perhaps they are not actually intended to serve their advertised function.
Mike says:
> "This is the One True Path. Join us. If you're not interested, piss off, because the One True Path does not change for anyone."
Religions are the moral beliefs of the believers. The, "take it or leave it," sentiment is only a mechanism to reinforce the beliefs through authority and assertion.
> It would be nice, in that light, if American churches were willing to take some kind of moral stance against something other than the convenient target groups that its core supporters already hate.
It is not a question of the religion choosing to consist of a set of beliefs. The religion is the beliefs of the members of the religion and right now those beliefs are narrowing and bigoted. They have at other times been broader and more self-exploratory, but today they are not.
Dave Dell says:
I will say it was interesting watching the Nebraska legislature debate the death penalty this last session. A number of religious types – mostly Republican conservatives – voted for repeal of the death penalty based on their religious convictions. None of the Senators that I can recall used any religious/moral grounds for retaining the death penalty.
Now, of course, the uber-rich-conservative-Republican Governor has started/is backing a petition drive to re-instate the death penalty by popular vote. It might succeed.
Edward says:
The Catholic church was a part of the anti-sanctions movement, although possibly in part due to the fact that Iraq used to have a large Catholic community. A Bishop told an activist I knew that he was in a peculiar situation on that issue; usually, he said, an issue works its way from the grassroots up to the church leadership but in this case this was reversed. There were statements opposing the sanctions from the leadership but without much activity from the Catholic community.
Noseflower says:
I think you're missing something in this analysis. Communism, at least in the forms which manifested successfully in the 20th century, had a strong anti-religious bias. As a left-wing ideology (I know, I know, the authoritarian aspect of their regimes drove most on the left away from them, but it is the well from which they sprung), it drove churches away from their views and towards the rural right.
Skepticalist says:
Gore Vidal was quite a pacifist in later years. He often wondered what would be so bad if we minded our own damn business every now and then.
War is too much fun.
You're right that there is no such thing as organized pacifism.100 years ago, and even later, what would pass for it could be found lecturing at places like Chautauqua.
Kaleberg says:
In the 1930s there were a lot of antiwar ads:
http://vintage-ads.livejournal.com/4381116.html
The US was generally isolationist up until the Pearl Harbor bombing.
joel hanes says:
Catholicism did not oppose first trimester abortion until about 1820, as the developing fetus was held not to have a soul until "quckening".
Opposition to abortion did not become a central tenet of American Protestant evangelical praxis until the 1960s.
In both cases, opposition to abortion was adopted on the basis of political considerations, and not on the basis of theology.
HoosierPoli says:
'American Christianity seems to really have very little in common with the teachings of Christ at this point.'
Actually, putting words in the mouth of Christ in order to support pre-determined conclusions about morality is a tradition that goes back to the very earliest days of the Bible. If you've ever wondered why Paul and Matthew seem so at odds with one another, it's because Matthew is writing his Gospel as a big 'fuck you' to all the things he doesn't like about Paul.
So molding the religion to the tastes and preferences of the crowd at hand is a far older tradition than attempted fealty to the 'teachings of Christ' (whatever those actually were).
Xynzee says:
The biggest shift was as Noseflower pointed out was Communism which presented the bottom feeders like Joe and his ilk to exploit religion for their own agenda.
If Stalin and Co hadn't been so aggressive in seeking retribution against the church(es)* it perhaps would have been a bit more difficult for him to create his rallying point. Many churches—especially the Catholic+—were on side with the union movement and the New Deal and numerous other policies that lead to a far more equitable society.
The monied class always hated these policies. It was the "godless commies" that provided them the opportunity to change the tide in their favour.
The Civil Rights movement was also another game changer. Apart from the Southern Baptist Convention and a few minor Protestant groups, the Civil Rights movement was at its heart Christian. It's my understanding that it wasn't so much the Civil Rights Act that caused the problem, but the Court challenges. These combined with Nixon's "Southern Strategy" opened up a really toxic can of worms. That's where the "I double m/fn dare you to try to take my guns!!" attitude comes from. That extreme "States Rights" shit was predominantly a Southern thing. Two guesses why, but the first 20 don't count. Talk about the "Sins of the fathers to 1000 generations."
These were ultimately exploited by Ray-gun to bring us to the place we are now. With abortion, blacks, crime, gays, or whatever being the new Godless Commies.
WBC isn't too far off the mark by saying it was sin that lead to 9/11 and Iraq. It was just severely misplaced. It was the sins of greed and social inequality/injustice that has brought the country to its knees.
Alex SL says:
Not so sure about that – isn't "the customer is always right" an excellent strategy if all you want to do is maintain or recruit followers? Staying firm on its homophobia and misogyny isn't doing a church any favours either if its members start to find such teachings abhorrent.
And because it is all made up anyway, why not go with the times?
Emerson Dameron says:
Sean Hannity is currently disparaging the Pope as a communist, obviously fighting words in this case.
Can he DO that? Did the church have some sort of shake-up in leadership?
Xynzee says:
Sorry forgot to put these here earlier.
*Some of the historical animus garnered by the ROC was somewhat understandable, but it went further than Henry VIII/Cromwell's purges of Catholicism. It's also a subject that requires more than pithy sound bites to explore.
+One of the biggest criticisms of Pope Francis was his ties to Liberation Theology. Because of the above history, church leaders were concerned about the "Marxist" elements. Any reasonable study of the Bible would show that Christianity does have these "Marxist" elements. However, it neither fully supports "socialism" nor does it support a pure "capitalist" system either. It supports serving and honouring God by obeying Him and showing compassion. Read Deuteronomy and try to imagine how a Jubilee would go down today.
FWIW: Jesus wasn't very "nice". He would have been a very confronting person no matter who you were.
MS says:
At the micro level, clergy are employed by and responsible to their local flocks. This is explicit in most denominations. The Catholics tends to maintain a fiction of an overall heirarchy, but really, if the local flock disappears because they don't like Priest X, Priest X is going to disappear too.
It's a consumer choice, is what I'm saying. People change congregations all the time because they don't like what is being preached. Successful clergy are those that are saying something that people want to hear. Clergy that tell people uncomfortable truths don't have long careers.
And a lot of these flocks now are almost entirely composed of 80-year-old white people. We have a church near us where I swear to you there is not a single person under the age of 80 attending.
Now combine those above facts together.
democommie says:
"it drove churches away from their views and towards the rural right."
The churches in Russia, afaia, were never too interested in the plight of the masses. The Cossacks were nominally christian (mostly Eastern Orthodox, IIRC) and murderously anti-semetic. They did the Tsar's "wet work" for a couple of centuries.
""The US was generally isolationist up until the Pearl Harbor bombing."
Not to correct you (as I'm fairly certain that you're aware of the difference) isolationism and pacifism are quite different from one another. I just watched a segment of the excellent program about Italian-Americans which is currently running on my PBS provider and USians of Italian descent were strongly pro-Mussolini up until the time that he became Hitler and Tojo's BFF*.
* Best Fascist Friend
"Read Deuteronomy and try to imagine how a Jubilee would go down today. I think that book predates the mythical JESUS by several centuries. FWIW, outside of Leviticus–and only certain parts of that–, for most fervent KKKristians the NEW Testament is the one that they like.
democommie says:
"Read Deuteronomy and try to imagine how a Jubilee would go down today."
I think that book predates the mythical JESUS by several centuries. FWIW, outside of Leviticus–and only certain parts of that–, for most fervent KKKristians the NEW Testament is the one that they like.
We regret the error!
Major Kong says:
I forget, who's this week's Hitler of the week?
Putin? China? Iran?
It's hard to keep up sometimes.
Skepticalist says:
Hitler Of The Week?
The Pope. I find watching our current crop of Jesus Jolly types of deal with him.
Ursula says:
Thank you for pointing that out, joel hanes. Few people seem to realize that abortion has been with us for a very long time, and it was only very recently that people got their panties in a wad about it. From what I've learned, the "controversy" started around the time that the new profession of [male] medical doctors started taking over pre-natal care and birth from [female] midwives. I barely have to imagine the amount of butt-hurt these guys felt when they started to realize that women were helping other women avoid the full "consequences" of sex and rejecting their sperm-magic.
I do like this Pope Francis, or maybe it's just the reactions to him. When he repeats Catholic teachings about helping the less fortunate and equality, liberals cheer and conservatives bitch. When he repeats Catholic teachings about homosexuality and women's roles, it's the opposite. People love or hate him precisely because he's Catholic, and it's fun to watch the reaction. (FWIW, I was raised Catholic, so I learned a lot of these teachings, but I'm a liberal, pro-choice, LGBT ally, atheist these days.)
And finally, meanwhile, down in the lower 48, Houston (or the Nation's Armpit, as I call it) precisely, Tropical Storm Bill has come to town. I celebrated by ensuring that I got my bread, milk, and eggs yesterday, and made my french toast this morning.
Skepticalist says:
Anti-choice freaks since 1970 have shown us how horrible abortion is by what amounts to show and tell. By showing so many graphics of poorly done procedures they've in effect taught us how to it right. Thanks to them, poor people are now less afraid of it and know how to be careful.
Skepticalist says:
Oops
"taught us how to DO it right."
Xynzee says:
@Ursula: you do realise you're going to burn in Hell?!
French Toast?!? You Anti-Mur'kin CheESMo lover you!
It's FREEDUMZ(TM) Toast!
;)
Eau says:
Clergy – pretty much every type, going back for ever, are opportunistic and parasitic. This is why heathens who must be saved and brought into the light of what ever church, and massive amounts of untapped wealth are being found in geographic proximity over and over again. Countless gusto am instances of religions proclaiming various rulers Gods On Earth, despite said rulers seeming somewhat less-than-pious also supports this view. Post- WWII, the best opportunities for draining the vital fluids of defenceless plebs, (in league with the glorious leadership of the time), are to be found in war, not peace.
eau says:
"Historical", not "gusto am".
Fucking auto-correct. Granted, my typing is not great, but when was the last time anybody typed "gusto am" in a sentence?
Robert says:
MS, regarding Catholic parishes. I'm a cradle Catholic in recovery, and the hierarchy is in complete control of parishes. If the bishop doesn't like Father X, the congregation can support him all they want – Father X is going away. The only exception I've ever seen was Most Holy Redeemer in San Francisco. It's the Castro neighborhood church, and as close to welcoming and affirming as a Catholic church can be. It also collects more money from parishioners than it costs to run, so the Archbishop has traditionally given it more leeway than you'd expect.
But in general, the RCC is organized like the Mafia or a feudal system – parishes have no input on which priest they get, or even if the diocese keeps their church open.