I usually use the Gin and Tacos Facebook page to make (attempt) jokes throughout the day. Recently I unleashed this howler, with an excellent rejoinder from a Mr. Martin:
His joke got me thinking about the thousands of words written over the last few months about the disaster that is the Brownback administration in Kansas. Specifically, I wish I had a better understanding of the mindset of people who vote for someone like Brownback. Mr. Martin and I may have been (mostly) kidding, but as usual there may be a kernel of truth. Do conservatives actually think, "I'm voting for Brownback because things will get better once he is Governor!" or have they simply embraced nihilism and chosen the person they believe will do the best job of destroying the state?
I know enough Republicans to know that they are not all frothy-mouthed sociopaths even if the people they're electing lately are. But a guy like Brownback is so obviously devoid of any skills other than destroying government that it's hard to envision voting for him with any other end result in mind. They do everything but come out and promise to burn the country to the ground, so help them God. The next logical question, then, is why so many people think that when their Teabagging elected officials succeed at destroying the state, Republican voters will survive the ensuing chaos. I mean, who needs government infrastructure or a functioning economy when you've got a whole buncha bad-ass guns and a yard full of buried Glenn Beck gold?
Alan C says:
I don't know, if I lived there I might think, "How the hell can it get much worse? I already live in Kansas!"
Xynzee says:
Call me bad, call me despicable, call me whatever you want. But like the GOP toying with Newt(ered) Gangrenousitch I so want to see one of these GOP ideological fever swamps actually take hold. I so want to see one take root.
Then when we watch it fail and die a thousand horrible deaths, as we know it will. I want to see it crater. I want to see it crater fever swamp that we know it will. I want it to be such an incredible failure of such exponential scale that it cannot be comprehended. I want there to be no doubt in anyone's mind that, THIS! THIS is what happens when you let this level of f***tardedness and asshattery take root and allowed to be used as policy. This way, the next time anyone dares to mention these types of policies that individual will be drawn-quartered and burnt at the stake. Then exhumed to be crucified and hung in a gibbet for all eternity.
And if Kansarse must be the example, so be it.
Anyone notice that despite their desire to turn their home state into their own personal Randian fever swamp, the Kochs are strangely AWOL? They seem to have homes everywhere BUT Kansarse.
Sarah says:
The problem is that right-wingers aren't able to make this connection regarding their own ideology, although they are bloody quick to blame failing governments on liberals (think Detroit and Chicago. Oh, and Mexico and Argentina–the latter of which just defaulted on its debts for the second time in 13 years–too).
US in the UK says:
@Xynzee
http://youtu.be/8gIoVNU4iUY?t=6m39s
The Rock Knows.
anotherbozo says:
I am with Sarah. Moreover, the connection between cause and effect seems to be broken, not just among Tea Party types but the population generally. Case in point the relatively high esteem—still—for the Dubya Administration, hosts of the Big Lie that got us into Iraq.
It all comes down to spin and the effectiveness of propaganda, i.e "talking points." It can erase any crime, any and all ineptitude.
Orwell saw it coming.
freeportguy says:
Conservatives are totally blinded by their hatred for the "others", turning them into the scorpion from "The scorpion and the frog" fable/joke:
“Why did you sting me? Now both of us shall drown,” cried the frog.
“What can I do for this is my nature,” replied the unrepentant scorpion.
Unrepentant: despite all their so called religious fervor, unrepentant so accurately describes conservatives.
Anubis Bard says:
My take on your question would be that when people think about government they don't think about the infrastructure and (their own) benefits and all the ways that government actually serves as an underpinning to functional civilization (which are all the things you see being burned to the ground in Kansas). What they think about when they hear government are the grifters, liars and bought-and-paid-for lackeys who are the public face of government. And, yes, they think these people should be punished or at least be cut off from the public spigots of wealth and power. Cutting taxes or ham-stringing government is never about potholes it's about emptying or befouling the politicians' feeding troughs.
Xynzee says:
@US/UK: I'll take it one step further. You take the person to the "Rock in Kansarse", then proceed to smash their skull into it =)
@Sarah: who said I expected these f-tards to join the dots? I'm envisioning that the rest of us will, and tear them out by the roots before they can gain a foothold.
Anubis Bard says:
Of course, when the politicians are skillful they can deflect that vindictive burn-it-down energy away from themselves to the other face of government grift and fraud – namely those poors riding the public assistance gravy train. The result, as far as good governance is concerned, is pretty much the same.
Xynzee says:
What Anubis Bard said.
As an aside:
What people don't get is that if people did the right thing in the first place then there would be no need for gub'min regulation in the first place. If employers took the time to put safe guards in place for their employees or take care of them if they get injured in the work place then there would be no need for regulation.
One of these breakdowns would be seat belt laws. It was the insurance companies that pushed them—not necessarily a bad thing—to save money. But now the gub'min is takin our freedumz!
c u n d gulag says:
Kansas is involved in a 3-way.
While they're embracing Nihilism, they're doing a reach-around on Anarchy, while going down on Libertarianism.
'What's the matter with Kansas?'
Kansan's.
More specifically, white older Kansans.
North Carolina is also involved in its own 3-way.
Art Pope, the Governor, and the State Legislature are fucking every singe North Carolinian.
I lived in that beautiful state for 10 years, and I can't believe what's going on down there. Neither can my friends who are still there.
They feel like they've been ambushed by Conservatism.
Hopefully, they'll make some changes in November by voting the sociopath's out of office!
doug says:
Cund- I have lived in NC over 60 years, and have witnessed the state go from bad to good to worse. Sad, but I think it will continue in the wrong direction for a while longer. Hard to watch, harder to understand.
Benny Lava says:
Did you ever have a conversation with a campus communist? It is pretty much the same conversation as with a conservative/libertarian. By the way, scratch a libertarian long enough and you'll find a conservative. Anyways what the campus communists always say is that no one has ever really tried communism! Stalin wasn't a communist at all. Neither was Mao. Stalin had no ideology and Mao's red book is in no way influenced by the writings of Marx and Engles. Heck even Lenin perverted the teachings of Marx. No true Marxists has ever governed.
So too has no true conservative governance ever been tried. The economy collapsed under Bush? Well he wasn't a true conservative. I mean he didn't cut spending did he? Sure he did everything else that conservatives wanted but without that magic elixir there won't be growth. So Kansas failed? I'm sure they aren't true conservatives. I'm sure they didn't cut spending enough to make it work.
Fred says:
Liberals look at policy as a way to get the best outcome. The question of, 'what is the best outcome?' is always debatable but the goal is to strive for improvement.
Conservatives (in our modern American definition of) view policy as a dogmatic foregone conclusion. Lower taxes, reduce regulation, end welfare, get rid of unions and basically everybody is on their own 'cause FREEDOM!
And as they say: Conservativism can never fail, it can only be failed. If the state is crashing and burning it can only mean that Somalia has too much Gubmint interference. More entrepreneurial, freedom lovin' buccaneers will fix it all by pullin' themselves up by their blessed bootstraps.
Stacey Hager says:
Hey Fred, you pointed me to this site – perhaps your most outstanding contribution to my cognitive health. Nice one!
buckyblue says:
Conservatives see the enactment of the policy as the victory, what happens afterward is either ignored or fodder for more conservative policy. Walker walks around here, cheeseland, spouting his victories because he passed, with the repug state house, everything from the Koch Bros nursery book and wish list. The fact that the state is tanking, and Ed would have written about WI if KS hadn't turned into such a shittole, is beside the point. I live in one of the reddist areas of the country and have plenty of opportunities to talk politics with repugs, pretty easy actually, I just use facts and information. My favorite was my FIL who was spouting about getting gov't completely out of health care and everyone should buy it on their own. He was 75 at the time and medicare was paying 50K a year for a pulmonary hypertension drug. He had never thought that he would have to go out and buy HIS health insurance and then pay out of pocket for the drug, hadn't occurred to him. I told him he'd probably be dead in a year if that happened. But that's the case with most conservatives, they just don't think what their policies will do, even to them.
Vinny says:
@ freeportguy Says:
"August 6th, 2014 at 6:49 am
Conservatives are totally blinded by their hatred for the "others", turning them into the scorpion from "The scorpion and the frog" fable/joke:
“Why did you sting me? Now both of us shall drown,” cried the frog.
“What can I do for this is my nature,” replied the unrepentant scorpion.
Unrepentant: despite all their so called religious fervor, unrepentant so accurately describes conservatives."
Couldn't agree more.
My brother, a middle aged white guy, is a rabid Teabagger in Florida. He recently lost his job because of his bad back, and is now sucking off the teat ot Uncle Sam. Irony. Now he has all the time in the world to post anti Obama screeds on his facebook and Glen Beck's website.
He recently threatened to sue me and my other brothers if we did not agree to sell the my father's house within 3 months of his death. Dad is still alive.
US in the UK says:
@ Xynzee
Or maybe we could write it on the ground under the rock and then cut the rope when they are reading it.
charluckles says:
The entirety of my mothers side of my family lives in Kansas. Even have some relatives working for the Kochs. I haven't spoken with them in regards to the current state of affairs and Brownback, but in general I look at their political beliefs as cult like. They don't know any different and for the most part they don't hear any different in their daily lives. What they do hear that contradicts what they believe is easily washed away as liberal propaganda.
In speaking with my Mom the greatest eye opener was moving away from Kansas into an area of the country with a much more diverse population and set of views. She now has friends whose skin isn't white, whose religion isn't Christian, and whose upbringing wasn't conservative. I think initially it was probably a shock to her system, but breaking out of a cult always is.
scott (the other one) says:
While I agree with much, maybe most, of what has already been written here, I think for an awful lot of Kansas folk specifically—but the same can apply in North Carolina and elsewhere—it's fairly simple: Sam Brownback is the most godly candidate, therefore he will do the best job.
cromartie says:
To be a conservative in American society is to believe:
1) This person says he has the same values as me. It doesn't matter if he lives them, as long as he says them.
2) The "downside" of any of these policies that "liberals" talk about won't impact people like me, so it's ok. Those lazy "other" people need to work for a living anyway.
Tim H. says:
"Sam Brownback is the most godly candidate" brings to mind "Mississippi Squirrel Revival".
Two Below says:
Like Buckyblue I bemoan the situation here in Wisconsin. Walker has failed to create the 250,000 private sector jobs he promised, but created 8.5 state jobs to grab the meager assets of deceased spouses of nursing home residents on Medicaid. To distract voters from focusing on his failures and mean-spirited and destructive policies, he travels around the state in a Where’s Waldo-like exercise trying to take credit for every tiny business expansion that occurs. His excuse for failing to deliver on the jobs promise illustrates the cause-and-effect disconnect mentioned here by others: The recall elections scared away business investors.
comrade oz says:
Brownback's enablers are now explaining that there hasn't been enough time for his policies to get the desired affect on Kansans. But just you wait, they claim, the good times are just around around the corner as long as he continues to go full speed ahead.
FDChief says:
I think it helps if you look at most of these folks as the sort of people that look at politics and policies the way the Heaven's Gate people looked at Comet Hale-Bopp; not as an actual thing that happens but as a vehicle for their fears and fantasies.
They're mystics, basically. People who lack the ability to think logically and sequentially. A+B doesn't equal C because a miracle happens, or because FREEDOM! or because it just can't.
So it doesn't matter whether Brownback's actual policies are highly likely to result in a downturn in the general welfare. It's enough that he SAYS they won't and the way he says that aligns with the Magical Hale-Bopp Credo, so the poor rubes put on their Nikes, take their poison, and lay down confident that the spaceship is just held up in traffic…
Robert says:
My favorite punch line to the frog and scorpion joke is the scorpion saying, "you knew what I was when you picked me up."
Also applies to the world burners.
Jbosch says:
those of you who think Kansas is bad clearly, clearly, have not been to Missouri.
woot woot Wyandotte. dotte lyfe. it's the only life I know.
Skipper says:
@Sarah, I hope you know why Argentina defaulted.
It's a US vulture hedge-fund pirate holding a gun to their heads.
http://www.gregpalast.com/the-vulture-chewing-argentinas-living-corpse/
Major Kong says:
I would almost find this amusing if they weren't going to drag the rest of us down with them.
J. Dryden says:
Robert's phrase "world-burners" strikes a chord; as many others have noted, movement conservatism is packed to the rafters with believers in the Apocalypse. Full-on, no-question, in-our-lifetimes believers that we're in the End of Days. Such people are not, to put it mildly, going to give a shit about long-term investments in infrastructure or social services.
At the same time–and often in the same skull–there is a fundamental belief that success (and thus a person's value) is measured in monetary income. The more money you make–and the more money you keep, having made it–the better you are as a person. Period. "Doing well" is measured in objectively measurable materialistic terms.
And at the SAME same time–and just as often in the SAME same skull–there is an unreflective belief that In America, Everyone Can Make It–that this is a land of Equal Opportunity. Which means two things: A. See those rich guys? They were just like me once, which means that I can be just like them!, and B. Anyone who is not rich has only him/herself to blame, except for me, because–
At the same same SAME time, Racism and Sexism and Homophobia and Searing Hatred of all forms of Not Me because if They would stop stealing from me, I would be Rich.
Put these savory ingredients together, and you have a group of people so utterly convinced of their own inherent (i.e. not earned or taken) merit and of the wickedness of everyone else, that they will gladly GLADLY sink the lifeboat in the conviction that A. they themselves can float, and B. everyone else deserves to drown.
Major Kong says:
Whenever I meet someone who is convinced that the Apocalypse is going to happen in their lifetime I ask them two simple questions:
1. "Do you have a 401K or an IRA?"
If they answer yes:
2. "Why are you saving for a future you're certain will never get here?"
I have yet to see one of these people put their money where their mouth is.
Sarah says:
I figured it was something like that. My point was that sooner or later it would be blamed on liberals and liberal policies (labor unions are very strong in South America; Argentina does have universal health care coverage, and they were among the first countries in the world to elect female presidents).
Chicagojon says:
I love the 'just wait – if we give it enough time things will turn around' argument as if a state income tax is the only thing that individuals and corporations consider when deciding where to call home.
Sure Chicago has been here for a long time, has a long history, has an international airport that's a hub to the world, transportation networks built up around it for 150+ years, access to fresh water (will only increase in value), etc. etc. etc. but I'm sure if Kansas doubles down on their plans and completely eliminates the state income tax and reduces local sales taxes the influx of new business will give them enough money to build everything Chicago has x100.
Emerson Dameron says:
I'm surprised that no one has coined the word "Brownbacking."
Get back in the game, Dan Savage.
swkellogg says:
@Sarah
" The problem is that right-wingers aren't able to make this connection regarding their own ideology, although they are bloody quick to blame failing governments on liberals (think Detroit and Chicago. Oh, and Mexico and Argentina–the latter of which just defaulted on its debts for the second time in 13 years–too)."
Shorter: Conservatism can't fail, it can only be failed.
Alas.
Sarah says:
Uh-huh, and yet we had much gnashing of teeth and rending of garments–from liberals as well as conservatives!–because Obama didn't have everything fixed, complete with shining cities on their hills and all the streets paved with gold, within his first 100 days of his first term.
vegymper says:
@Sarah & friends
Greetings from Argentina, where after the default, the world keeps spinning. Ah, and we deposited the dues of the 95% hold-ins, only the 5% held by this guy Singer are outstanding, but who cares?
Xynzee says:
So here's an interesting question regarding Vulture Douche* and his cronies, what will the fall out of this ruling towards other Chpt 7/11 bankruptcies/restructures? As a lay person this looks like the return of the poor houses of the Dickinson/Guilded Age era… oh wait… that sound you just heard was the penny dropping.
*Why are the strongest English (American/Aussie in particular as the poms really know how to hurl an insult) invectives aimed at feminine body parts, women in general, sex acts and natural body functions? My understanding of Scandamahoovian is that the worst invective is faün (sp?). Which from my limited understanding of Norsk translates into a literal summation of the Devil/Satan. Which no matter your theological bent would be a very BAD thing indeed to occur. Where as the Chinese (read Mandarin)/Bhuddist is: "May you live in interesting times".
Xynzee says:
FYI Ed: you were a two days ahead of the curve on Skidma… er… Brownback.
http://m.dailykos.com/stories/1319840
Robert says:
Xynzee, douche actually makes sense as an insult. It's something that is sold as having a useful purpose, but which is both unnecessary and potentially harmful.
Procopius says:
@Xynsee: Actually, that "may you live in interesting times" is not Chinese at all, and would not make sense to a Chinese person. The Chinese (at least Mandarin) mortal insult is "turtle's egg."
Edward says:
I think the election of these politicians and their watered-down democratic counterparts represents the success of the corporate propaganda system. They own the press, they have the money to pay for advertising, and they influence what people think and how they vote.
jjack says:
They don't think about anything you said for one reason: the only thing they give a shit about is who can beat the Demacrat.