(((I've argued that they should close this loophole. It wouldn't take too long – nor too many bodies found dead on sidewalks in front of hospitals that refused to treat them)))
Be careful what you wish for, Ed. Back in the 80's Ronnie Ray Gun stopped funding mental health facilities, believing (assuming he had a conscience) that the states would pickup the slack. Fast forward a few decades and we have thousands of homeless who belong in treatment facilities.
middle seaman says:
Here in the DC area, your claim of slimdown will be received badly. Each one of us knows people who stay home and may be struggling financially. The National Parks of which we have many are closed inconveniencing tourist as well as locals. Frequently attended parks such as Gettysburg, Shenandoah and the different Smithsonian museums are closed. NASA, NIH and even parts of NSA are shutdown. (NSA spying probably continues.)
The local private sector loses money through gift shops shuttered, empty restaurants, semi empty hotels, etc.
True, Tea Party parties are few in the nation's capital.
Sadly, moronic pundits, stupid papers and endless experts are doing brisk business.
Tim H. says:
It's become irresponsible to vote Republican, they're endangerng the nation, even faster than the pathetic Democrats.
Mingent Whizmaster says:
Nowadays, a Sunday-school teacher can defeat the will of the Speaker of the House.
–from the 'suicide caucus' link
The map at that link is also instructive, along with the notion of gerrymandered districts which almost insure the re-election of many of
the more extreme Teaparty repubs. It is possible that we might be stuck
in this situation for awhile. What's going to break first?
c u n d gulag says:
Yup, Ed.
But this way, after one self-manufactured crisis after another, they get to deep going back to their rube base, and saying, 'See, government DOESN'T work!"
And they get reelected for another 2 to 6 years, to suck at the government's teat.
Now, as to what may happen in all of this, rather remarkably, I’m not going to doomsay.
Yes, the country is in a dangerous spot.
But, in danger, lies opportunity.
This may be a tipping point, for the Teabaggers.
They’ve cast their lot, and put all of the chips, on the shutdown lasting up until the debt ceiling, and betting that the President and the Democrats will blink.
And if they do, the Teabaggers win.
Ah, but if they don’t?
I saw Boehner come out of the meeting with the President yesterday, a broken man – even more broken than usual.
It’s apparent that the Teabaggers in the House have a different de facto Speaker, and that’s Ted Cruz. Ditto, the Senate.
And sure, a whole lot of Republican Congresspeople and Senators, who once voiced an opinion against any government shutdown, rallied-round the elephant after the decision to shutdown the Federal government was actually made.
But after that meeting yesterday, when the President, and Reid, and Pelosi, told the Republicans to suck eggs, cracks are starting to appear.
The House isn’t all Teabaggers.
There are still Republicans from purple districts in the Northeast, and Midwest – and other areas – who don’t want to commit political suicide continuing to stay with Teabagger “Suicide Caucus,” who are gerrymandered into safe Red, lily-white, and no Blues, districts, and whose jobs are safe for the foreseeable future.
And these non-Teabaggers, are hearing about the shutdown from their constituents, and don’t see staying with their suicidal Republican brethren as a good career move, and are calling for an “open vote”: http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/03/politics/government-shutdown/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
I don’t expect much movement until right before the October 17th debt ceiling deadline.
But if the non-completely insane Republicans can get that open vote, the shutdown will end, and there’ll most likely be no continuing debt ceiling fight.
Boehner may be out, as Speaker, but not for good – unless he wants to be.
The Teabaggers will try to foist one of their own into the position, but the Democrats can work with the non-Teabaggers, and either reinstall Boehner, or choose a new Speaker from the non-insane Republicans.
And this may cause the Teabaggers, to go “All 3rd Party” on everyone’s asses!
And I’m fine with that, because that 3rd Party will draw their voters from the Republicans running for Congress, and the Senate, and for President, which may make it easier for Democrats to regain the House if the Democrats wage a 50-state battle for every Congressional District, keep the Senate, and have at least another 4 years where there’s no Republican in the Oval Office.
Now, is this probable?
I don’t know.
But it’s certainly possible!
Of course, I can’t factor-in the effect of the wealthiest of the wealthy, and the ramifications from the SCOTUS’s “Citizens United” decision, in any upcoming election.
Now, what do we do about the other cancer – the one not in DC, but in our state houses, where the Teabaggers are undermining the United States of America, one state at a time?
That, I don’t know.
Except hope that the ramifications of that scenario I described above, ‘trickling-down.’ And wouldn’t it be nice to finally see something good ‘trickle-down?’
Remember one thing, though – at this point, and for the foreseeable future, there are no “moderate” Republicans, no matter what the MSM does to make it seem that way.
There are only “Less-insane” and “Less-Nihilistic” Republicans.
Now, having said all of this, I’ll probably read something later today which will bring me right back into my deep-depression doomsay mode.
Sorry – yet another long-ass word-turd from me!
I guess I'm allergic to brevity.
Tim H. says:
Needed saying. I stray from the point if I write at length, so I'll just say "I'd vote for a Republican if the alternative was reanimated Bob Berdella, or Jeffrey Dahmer.".
If only the "slimdown" included a moratorium on public water service provisions to prevent Rand Paul from flushing his loonitarian toilet.
Teaturds everywhere deserve a strong whiff of their own effluvium.
Ten Bears says:
What makes you think your vote, one way or the other, counts?
Decisions such these are not left yo we mere pleabs.
No fear.
Tim H. says:
The popular vote is the fig leaf the ruling class may hesitate to remove.
Xynzee says:
I noticed that many in the Teabag caucus have no qualms about still collecting their cheques. "I'm still working…" Mike Lee UT
Another strategy would be having an Amendment where all pollies and snr staff have the pay automatically withheld (and no opportunities to recoup the loss) until they pass a spending bill. Leaders of both parties are immediately find $20k and need to pay $5k for every week of the shutdown. All others are fined $10k and then $2k there after.
Yup, put a bit of skin in the game guys, then tell us how serious you are.
A friend has a great analysis of the US system. I'll post it when I can get it off of FB.
sluggo says:
I suspect that the President is the type of guy that will bend over backwards to work with someone until a point. That point is a lot further than almost anyone else.
Once you get past that point, they guy that had Osama Bin Laden whacked Godfather style comes out. Hell may actually freeze over before this gets resolved.
GunstarGreen says:
Remember all the big Tea Terrorist hoopla over 'you didn't build that'? Going along with the idea of 'You retards want to shut down the government? Alright, we'll shut it ALL down', we should similarly handle the things like public roads and public utilities and the like. Shut them down, barricade them, hang signs on the non-functioning pipe ends and blockaded streets that read "Guess what? You didn't build this, fuckers."
Sometimes, the only way to get a stupid, petulant child to understand that the stove is hot, is to let them put their hand on it and get burned. These people think they want less gub'mint? Give 'em no government for a while and let them see just what their Somalian-style wet dream looks like.
Republican voters are like children. Sometimes, you have to hold their hand on the stove to the point of 3rd degree burns until they figure out they shouldn't touch it.
Cancel the hoverround subsidy and they'll see the light.
Khaled says:
I'm with Ed. If it's a shutdown they want, it's a shutdown they'll get. All federal government services cancelled tomorrow. Want to board a plane? Too bad. Want to use an ATM to get cash? Until the banks run out of money- no new shipments of new bills in from the Federal Reserve. Turn off the Medicare and Social Security checks. Turn off the SNAP (seriously, how did that name get approved? I think it's a joke some knuckle-draggers in the Bush Admin put it and still can't believe is going on) and welfare checks, etc. Have the Border Patrol and DEA and FBI and *all* Military personnel go home without pay.
The "shutdown" would last a day.
Here in Dayton, almost 9000 people got sent home without pay because of the shutdown- and of course, the local House rep (Turner) is bleating that they are essential personnel and should go back to work- never mind that he is helping to put these people out of work- it's "someone else" that these cuts are hurting! Local Tea party wannabes are claiming that Obama and the dem's are responsible for the shutdown- and as the people around here cash the checks that come from the government (Wright Patt AFB) and the industries that depend on it- but hey, yeah, "I built that"
Whatever. These people are clueless.
c u n d gulag says:
And you know who'll be in the biggest shock of all if the Republicans get what they want?
Poor white Republicans!
Bye-bye, Social Security!
Bye-by, Social Security Disability Payments!
Bye-bye, Medicare!
Bye-bye, Medicaid!
Bye-bye, SNAP benefits!
Bye-bye, driveable highways!
You're already working on 'bye-byeing' public education.
And then, when their single or double-wide gets to expensive to live in, and have to move into the same tin-roofed shanty their Grandparents grew-up in, then they'll cry themselves a f*cking river.
Well 'Boo-f*ckin'-hoo,' @$$HOLES!!!!!!
Of course, the poor white Conservatives will comfort themselves with what got their Pappy's and Grandpappy's, and generations of poor white Conservatives through their hard times – "Well… Least we ain't as bad off as 'em N*gger families 'cross 'em tracks." *
*And while this is offensive, it was told to me by a native white Southerner when I lived in NC, and asked him why so many people down there voted against their own best interests, and were, and are, still willing to keep voting that way.
He said that the poor white man, when his son asked him why they lived so poorly, had no shoes, not enough food, and holes in the roof and floor, would tell him, "Well, son… Look at it this way – least we ain't as bad off as 'em N*gger families 'cross 'em tracks. We's rich compared to them!!!"
Rosalux says:
Meanwhile, check out the scene from Hitler's bunker. Warning: if you don't like horror films, cover your eyes.
"How brave. Someday we will sing ballads of their heroism before the statues erected in their honor."
One of may favorite parts of their behavior in this crisis they have manufactured – apparently many of these brave, brave heroes are removing their office phone numbers from their websites. I guess its easier to claim you have public support when the public can't easily reach you to refudiate your stupid notion.
mothra says:
Well, I understand that SNAP benefits WILL end by next week. So there you go. But those are just poor brown people who get those, right? Oh, wait, you say that white people make up the majority of SNAP recipients? Well, you just convince them that the darkie in the White House is who took away their benefits and they'll have no problem believing it. And on and on it goes.
But I do love the Republicans' tactic of now trying to fund popular programs one at a time. Asshats.
mothra says:
Oh, and by the way, one of the members of the Suicide Caucus represents the southern, conservative portion of my state. He repesents one half of the poorest state in the nation. A state which depends on the government jobs to even barely keep it going. Yet he votes for this shit. He's not my rep–I live in the sane part of the state. But he keeps getting re-elected because of all the redneck, Teatard conservatives in that part of the state who go out and vote. But I remain aghast at his ability to bring real suffering to the poor people of this state just so he can get re-elected. Yes, he is a millionaire many times over.
Sarah says:
*And while this is offensive, it was told to me by a native white Southerner when I lived in NC, and asked him why so many people down there voted against their own best interests, and were, and are, still willing to keep voting that way.
He said that the poor white man, when his son asked him why they lived so poorly, had no shoes, not enough food, and holes in the roof and floor, would tell him, "Well, son… Look at it this way – least we ain't as bad off as 'em N*gger families 'cross 'em tracks. We's rich compared to them!!!"
Going off on a tangent here, but last year I went to a lecture given by the asshole dude who wrote this book, which was sponsored by my university. Tell you what, it was all I could do to stop myself from running up there and smacking him upside the head. He really likes using the word "savages" in reference to the violence resulting from the Mexican drug war. "These people are such savages because they are so savage and they go around committing such savagery," et al. He talked about the corruption which supposedly is inherent in Mexican society and is tied up with the unions (of course it is), and how hard it is to get a job if you're not in tight with the PTB in the unions (because networking and knowing the right people when 80% of jobs are not advertised is not a thing that happens in the United States). He mentioned one young woman who is the daughter of one of the corporation heads involved with the oil trade and how she got her job through nepotism, and emphasized with a hint of outrage that she has Hermés bags. I caught the very distinct impression that he was less concerned with this young lady's so-called tangential connection with the drug trade, and more concerned with the fact that she is a brown non-English speaking person who has expensive things. (She has HERMES BAGS. ZOMG, how DARE she!) And in connection with this last, he also made the point of saying he noticed that many of the ladies in the audience were also carrying Hermés bags. Oh, and at the beginning of the lecture, he introduced the young Colombian man who was there as an exchange student. Just so he could, you know, show how not-racist he is.
swkellogg says:
"The ignorant are a reservoir of daring. It almost seems that those who have yet to discover the known are particularly equipped for dealing with the unknown. The unlearned have often rushed in where the learned feared to tread, and it is the credulous who are tempted to attempt the impossible. They know not whither they are going, and give chance a chance." — Eric Hoffer
Maybe. But most of the time they just fuck things up.
Neal Deesit says:
@ sluggo , October 3rd, 2013 at 8:06 am: "Once you get past that point, the guy that had Osama Bin Laden whacked Godfather style comes out."
Imagine that 30 or so radical Islamists in Yemen had somehow harmed the U.S as badly as the shutdown has. Congressional Republicans, including the 30 or so Teabaggers, would be screaming for Obama to send in the SEALs to do their "double tap" dance.
lless says:
True, but… There is a secondary reality at work that sooner or later dooms them by a thousand self inflicted cuts. On the face of it they have written off women. I think you correctly point to poor underemployed white males as a bunker constituency. They have cut extended unemployment benefits and foodstamps. There is talk of unwinding the Earned Income Tax Credit. They fail to fund and try to close chemical dependency programs and criminalize addiction. They proffer sin taxes galore. They blame the borrowers for the banking collapse. They want to close the doors of the bankruptcy courts. You just can't make life miserable for your core constituents and expect none of them to notice.
Xynzee says:
Here's my friend's take down of why the US political system is so FUBAR'd at the moment. Pretty good observation for an outsider:
"Alternatively, just recognise that the United States was formed to protect the property rights of plutocratic planters. It wasn't designed for anyone else. They devised an experimental constitution that guaranteed weak, immobile domestic government, with plenty of powers for the substitute king when a external problem surfaced. The whole system is meant to make reform and responsible government extremely difficult, very convenient for planters. The only way to fix it is to abolish the presidency or limit the powers of congress. Stalemates are inevitable when no one is responsible for the government. The system can only work when there is a culture of co-operation, but the constitution didn't think about this."
TLDR: the founding fathers intentionally weighted the system to their benefit, and is predicated on the idea that (rich) people are awesome and will be excellent to each other.
Xynzee says:
@Iles:
The issue is that in some ways this is exactly what they want. The goal is to destroy the central government and create a state of anarchy.
People are elected into office on a platform of torching the village, then when they torch the village they stand back and scream: "See the Gub'min' torched the village! You can't trust the Gub'min'!!"
In the end it's not the party that will take the hit, it's the government (and us) that's going to take it.
Could you imagine Coke putting in place a Board-of-Directors composed of people morally opposed to soft drinks and vow to destroy the soft drink arm of the company? Yet, that's what we get with these idiots.
Xynzee says:
Is the end game of this the Debt Ceiling fight, and then to force a change to Deferred Benefits (Soc.Sec. Medicare)?
This way the parties on both sides can say, "we had to do something."
Sounds ominous to me, and a little too coincidental to me.
joel hanes says:
Reagan knew perfectly well that the states would not pick up the slack, because as Governor, he'd already pulled the same trick in California a few years before. The justification was "freedom" — the conceit being that many in the state mental hospitals had been involuntarily committed, and were being held against their wills, a form of imprisonment, without having been convicted of anything, and with no recourse to the courts. And, you know, after reading One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest a couple time, and if one had only a passing familiarity with the mentally ill, that's got a surface plausibility.
I hope the schizophrenic guy living in the bushes down by the city park enjoys his freedom through the winter rain season again. I give him a little money when I see him, but he really needs a safe and warm place to live, and he's incapbable of arranging that for himself.
c u n d gulag says:
joel hanes,
Are you sure he's still out there at the park, or is he in a nice house?
The US House of Representatives.
Bernard says:
it is definitely true that white Southerners will vote Tea Party just to stop the Blacks. that's why we don't have Regional Transit here in New Orleans, Keeps the Blacks out of the Rich white neighborhoods. and make the poor whites pay to go anywhere, you must have a car. and it works since St. Reagan.
Same thing for Schools, get rid of Public Education, through "Charter" Schools.
these White Southern Republicans and Tea Nuts are not stupid. With all the money from the Koch Bros/Dick Armey funding the Tea Party/Republican Reps/Sens, it works like a charm. Keep All those Dumb White Folks Scared. The Blacks are coming for their Daughters, too.
make a deal with the Devil/Fear and stupidity wins as we have seen for the last 40 years. Thanks, St. Reagan, Bush
no matter what anyone says. the Fear of the Black man by White Republicans has been working wonders.
JohnR says:
Yup, as horrible as it is, I keep thinking that it might have been a bad thing to exempt SS payments from the shutdown. Right now people are hurting, but slowly and mostly under the radar, and mostly the Wrong Sort of people. No Social Security checks, though, and the torches and pitchforks come out. I'm inclined to think a short, sharp shock will be less harmful to us all than a protracted, agonizing dip into boiling oil.
Also, too, @ TimH: I dunno – I'd go for Dahmer. At least he ate what he killed, and wasn't as crazy as Ted Nugent; that puts him a lot further up the ladder than any of the GOP politicians in my book, who kill things just for fun and let them rot where they lie. He wasn't any more psychopathic than most of the House delegation, either.
Ursula says:
Dahmer was also fully aware of what he was. I recall when he gave testimony and said that if he was allowed to be free, he would kill again. As an elected official, he would be under semi-constant surveilance and could get healthcare to help his homicidal urges.
guttedleafsfan says:
Sorry, I thought this was No Politics Friday. Forgot that right now weekends are shut down and serve the damn moochers right.
Khaled says:
@Bernard- one of the Dayton suburbs recently went through a whole tantrum throwing routine because the metro bus line wanted to put a stop by a mall in the suburb. The lilly-white suburb of course whined about congestion, but everyone knew it was because they were afraid of the poor black people from the city coming to their mall. It was made even more shameful because students at nearby Wright State had to walk over a interstate bridge that didn't have a sidewalk to get to the mall for part-time jobs, etc instead of being able to hop on a bus. Some local groups sued over it, and I think after all is said and done, the mall is getting the bus stop after all- only after reinforcing stereotypes.
bb in GA says:
Does anyone here have any experience on the wrong end of a gun or a knife or suffered an ass whuppin'?
I do and I am sure that others who have had that experience care little what is the major pigment in the skin of the sumbitch holding the piece, the knife, or whose knuckles are hurtling towards your face.
//bb
c u n d gulag says:
bb,
Maybe not at the time of the incident.
But if you survive, are you trying to tell me that later that if that attacker was from another race, you wouldn't remember, or care – or, maybe hold a grudge?
I'm sure there are people who don't, of won't, care. But in this country, I don't think they're anywhere near a majority – from any race.
Race is still a major issue in this country – despite the claims that the election of President Obama means that we're now a post-racial country.
And usually the ones who keep repeating that meme, are really racists, trying to hide their inner-racist. And their argument seems to imply that, by noticing race, YOU'RE the REAL racist, and not them!
I'd argue that race is just about as divisive today, as it was 50, or 100, or 150 years ago.
I'd go into a lengthy comment, but I'm pooped – we just had my aunt, uncle, cousin, and his two little boys over for a long brunch. And, after 3 days of cleaning and shopping and cooking, I'm exhausted – so, I'll save you all from another one of my lengthy word-turds.
bb in GA says:
Ed and Left of Center Contributors:
Why does Fox news vex y'all so much?
Their top rated program is Bill O'Pompous w/ about 2.6E06 TeeVee sets connected. The MSM evening news is still about 5 times that. I don't think MSNBC fires up the Right near as much as what "Faux Noise' does the Left.
Sally's Dad says:
(((I've argued that they should close this loophole. It wouldn't take too long – nor too many bodies found dead on sidewalks in front of hospitals that refused to treat them)))
Be careful what you wish for, Ed. Back in the 80's Ronnie Ray Gun stopped funding mental health facilities, believing (assuming he had a conscience) that the states would pickup the slack. Fast forward a few decades and we have thousands of homeless who belong in treatment facilities.
middle seaman says:
Here in the DC area, your claim of slimdown will be received badly. Each one of us knows people who stay home and may be struggling financially. The National Parks of which we have many are closed inconveniencing tourist as well as locals. Frequently attended parks such as Gettysburg, Shenandoah and the different Smithsonian museums are closed. NASA, NIH and even parts of NSA are shutdown. (NSA spying probably continues.)
The local private sector loses money through gift shops shuttered, empty restaurants, semi empty hotels, etc.
True, Tea Party parties are few in the nation's capital.
Sadly, moronic pundits, stupid papers and endless experts are doing brisk business.
Tim H. says:
It's become irresponsible to vote Republican, they're endangerng the nation, even faster than the pathetic Democrats.
Mingent Whizmaster says:
–from the 'suicide caucus' link
The map at that link is also instructive, along with the notion of gerrymandered districts which almost insure the re-election of many of
the more extreme Teaparty repubs. It is possible that we might be stuck
in this situation for awhile. What's going to break first?
c u n d gulag says:
Yup, Ed.
But this way, after one self-manufactured crisis after another, they get to deep going back to their rube base, and saying, 'See, government DOESN'T work!"
And they get reelected for another 2 to 6 years, to suck at the government's teat.
Now, as to what may happen in all of this, rather remarkably, I’m not going to doomsay.
Yes, the country is in a dangerous spot.
But, in danger, lies opportunity.
This may be a tipping point, for the Teabaggers.
They’ve cast their lot, and put all of the chips, on the shutdown lasting up until the debt ceiling, and betting that the President and the Democrats will blink.
And if they do, the Teabaggers win.
Ah, but if they don’t?
I saw Boehner come out of the meeting with the President yesterday, a broken man – even more broken than usual.
It’s apparent that the Teabaggers in the House have a different de facto Speaker, and that’s Ted Cruz. Ditto, the Senate.
And sure, a whole lot of Republican Congresspeople and Senators, who once voiced an opinion against any government shutdown, rallied-round the elephant after the decision to shutdown the Federal government was actually made.
But after that meeting yesterday, when the President, and Reid, and Pelosi, told the Republicans to suck eggs, cracks are starting to appear.
The House isn’t all Teabaggers.
There are still Republicans from purple districts in the Northeast, and Midwest – and other areas – who don’t want to commit political suicide continuing to stay with Teabagger “Suicide Caucus,” who are gerrymandered into safe Red, lily-white, and no Blues, districts, and whose jobs are safe for the foreseeable future.
And these non-Teabaggers, are hearing about the shutdown from their constituents, and don’t see staying with their suicidal Republican brethren as a good career move, and are calling for an “open vote”:
http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/03/politics/government-shutdown/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
I don’t expect much movement until right before the October 17th debt ceiling deadline.
But if the non-completely insane Republicans can get that open vote, the shutdown will end, and there’ll most likely be no continuing debt ceiling fight.
Boehner may be out, as Speaker, but not for good – unless he wants to be.
The Teabaggers will try to foist one of their own into the position, but the Democrats can work with the non-Teabaggers, and either reinstall Boehner, or choose a new Speaker from the non-insane Republicans.
And this may cause the Teabaggers, to go “All 3rd Party” on everyone’s asses!
And I’m fine with that, because that 3rd Party will draw their voters from the Republicans running for Congress, and the Senate, and for President, which may make it easier for Democrats to regain the House if the Democrats wage a 50-state battle for every Congressional District, keep the Senate, and have at least another 4 years where there’s no Republican in the Oval Office.
Now, is this probable?
I don’t know.
But it’s certainly possible!
Of course, I can’t factor-in the effect of the wealthiest of the wealthy, and the ramifications from the SCOTUS’s “Citizens United” decision, in any upcoming election.
Now, what do we do about the other cancer – the one not in DC, but in our state houses, where the Teabaggers are undermining the United States of America, one state at a time?
That, I don’t know.
Except hope that the ramifications of that scenario I described above, ‘trickling-down.’ And wouldn’t it be nice to finally see something good ‘trickle-down?’
Remember one thing, though – at this point, and for the foreseeable future, there are no “moderate” Republicans, no matter what the MSM does to make it seem that way.
There are only “Less-insane” and “Less-Nihilistic” Republicans.
Now, having said all of this, I’ll probably read something later today which will bring me right back into my deep-depression doomsay mode.
Sorry – yet another long-ass word-turd from me!
I guess I'm allergic to brevity.
Tim H. says:
Needed saying. I stray from the point if I write at length, so I'll just say "I'd vote for a Republican if the alternative was reanimated Bob Berdella, or Jeffrey Dahmer.".
John Danley says:
If only the "slimdown" included a moratorium on public water service provisions to prevent Rand Paul from flushing his loonitarian toilet.
Teaturds everywhere deserve a strong whiff of their own effluvium.
Ten Bears says:
What makes you think your vote, one way or the other, counts?
Decisions such these are not left yo we mere pleabs.
No fear.
Tim H. says:
The popular vote is the fig leaf the ruling class may hesitate to remove.
Xynzee says:
I noticed that many in the Teabag caucus have no qualms about still collecting their cheques. "I'm still working…" Mike Lee UT
Another strategy would be having an Amendment where all pollies and snr staff have the pay automatically withheld (and no opportunities to recoup the loss) until they pass a spending bill. Leaders of both parties are immediately find $20k and need to pay $5k for every week of the shutdown. All others are fined $10k and then $2k there after.
Yup, put a bit of skin in the game guys, then tell us how serious you are.
A friend has a great analysis of the US system. I'll post it when I can get it off of FB.
sluggo says:
I suspect that the President is the type of guy that will bend over backwards to work with someone until a point. That point is a lot further than almost anyone else.
Once you get past that point, they guy that had Osama Bin Laden whacked Godfather style comes out. Hell may actually freeze over before this gets resolved.
GunstarGreen says:
Remember all the big Tea Terrorist hoopla over 'you didn't build that'? Going along with the idea of 'You retards want to shut down the government? Alright, we'll shut it ALL down', we should similarly handle the things like public roads and public utilities and the like. Shut them down, barricade them, hang signs on the non-functioning pipe ends and blockaded streets that read "Guess what? You didn't build this, fuckers."
Sometimes, the only way to get a stupid, petulant child to understand that the stove is hot, is to let them put their hand on it and get burned. These people think they want less gub'mint? Give 'em no government for a while and let them see just what their Somalian-style wet dream looks like.
They won't last 24 hours.
Major Kong says:
This is the living example of:
Republicans say government can't work, and then keep getting elected to prove it.
Sarah says:
They don't know what they want. But they DO know that they are not going to be "disrespected."
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/gop-congressman-says-he-doesn-t-know-what-republicans-want-in-shutdown-fight
cromartie says:
Republican voters are like children. Sometimes, you have to hold their hand on the stove to the point of 3rd degree burns until they figure out they shouldn't touch it.
Cancel the hoverround subsidy and they'll see the light.
Khaled says:
I'm with Ed. If it's a shutdown they want, it's a shutdown they'll get. All federal government services cancelled tomorrow. Want to board a plane? Too bad. Want to use an ATM to get cash? Until the banks run out of money- no new shipments of new bills in from the Federal Reserve. Turn off the Medicare and Social Security checks. Turn off the SNAP (seriously, how did that name get approved? I think it's a joke some knuckle-draggers in the Bush Admin put it and still can't believe is going on) and welfare checks, etc. Have the Border Patrol and DEA and FBI and *all* Military personnel go home without pay.
The "shutdown" would last a day.
Here in Dayton, almost 9000 people got sent home without pay because of the shutdown- and of course, the local House rep (Turner) is bleating that they are essential personnel and should go back to work- never mind that he is helping to put these people out of work- it's "someone else" that these cuts are hurting! Local Tea party wannabes are claiming that Obama and the dem's are responsible for the shutdown- and as the people around here cash the checks that come from the government (Wright Patt AFB) and the industries that depend on it- but hey, yeah, "I built that"
Whatever. These people are clueless.
c u n d gulag says:
And you know who'll be in the biggest shock of all if the Republicans get what they want?
Poor white Republicans!
Bye-bye, Social Security!
Bye-by, Social Security Disability Payments!
Bye-bye, Medicare!
Bye-bye, Medicaid!
Bye-bye, SNAP benefits!
Bye-bye, driveable highways!
You're already working on 'bye-byeing' public education.
And then, when their single or double-wide gets to expensive to live in, and have to move into the same tin-roofed shanty their Grandparents grew-up in, then they'll cry themselves a f*cking river.
Well 'Boo-f*ckin'-hoo,' @$$HOLES!!!!!!
Of course, the poor white Conservatives will comfort themselves with what got their Pappy's and Grandpappy's, and generations of poor white Conservatives through their hard times – "Well… Least we ain't as bad off as 'em N*gger families 'cross 'em tracks." *
*And while this is offensive, it was told to me by a native white Southerner when I lived in NC, and asked him why so many people down there voted against their own best interests, and were, and are, still willing to keep voting that way.
He said that the poor white man, when his son asked him why they lived so poorly, had no shoes, not enough food, and holes in the roof and floor, would tell him, "Well, son… Look at it this way – least we ain't as bad off as 'em N*gger families 'cross 'em tracks. We's rich compared to them!!!"
Rosalux says:
Meanwhile, check out the scene from Hitler's bunker. Warning: if you don't like horror films, cover your eyes.
http://www.redstate.com/2013/10/02/this-is-about-shutting-down-obamacare/
Jebediah says:
"How brave. Someday we will sing ballads of their heroism before the statues erected in their honor."
One of may favorite parts of their behavior in this crisis they have manufactured – apparently many of these brave, brave heroes are removing their office phone numbers from their websites. I guess its easier to claim you have public support when the public can't easily reach you to refudiate your stupid notion.
mothra says:
Well, I understand that SNAP benefits WILL end by next week. So there you go. But those are just poor brown people who get those, right? Oh, wait, you say that white people make up the majority of SNAP recipients? Well, you just convince them that the darkie in the White House is who took away their benefits and they'll have no problem believing it. And on and on it goes.
But I do love the Republicans' tactic of now trying to fund popular programs one at a time. Asshats.
mothra says:
Oh, and by the way, one of the members of the Suicide Caucus represents the southern, conservative portion of my state. He repesents one half of the poorest state in the nation. A state which depends on the government jobs to even barely keep it going. Yet he votes for this shit. He's not my rep–I live in the sane part of the state. But he keeps getting re-elected because of all the redneck, Teatard conservatives in that part of the state who go out and vote. But I remain aghast at his ability to bring real suffering to the poor people of this state just so he can get re-elected. Yes, he is a millionaire many times over.
Sarah says:
Going off on a tangent here, but last year I went to a lecture given by the
assholedude who wrote this book, which was sponsored by my university. Tell you what, it was all I could do to stop myself from running up there and smacking him upside the head. He really likes using the word "savages" in reference to the violence resulting from the Mexican drug war. "These people are such savages because they are so savage and they go around committing such savagery," et al. He talked about the corruption which supposedly is inherent in Mexican society and is tied up with the unions (of course it is), and how hard it is to get a job if you're not in tight with the PTB in the unions (because networking and knowing the right people when 80% of jobs are not advertised is not a thing that happens in the United States). He mentioned one young woman who is the daughter of one of the corporation heads involved with the oil trade and how she got her job through nepotism, and emphasized with a hint of outrage that she has Hermés bags. I caught the very distinct impression that he was less concerned with this young lady's so-called tangential connection with the drug trade, and more concerned with the fact that she is a brown non-English speaking person who has expensive things. (She has HERMES BAGS. ZOMG, how DARE she!) And in connection with this last, he also made the point of saying he noticed that many of the ladies in the audience were also carrying Hermés bags. Oh, and at the beginning of the lecture, he introduced the young Colombian man who was there as an exchange student. Just so he could, you know, show how not-racist he is.swkellogg says:
"The ignorant are a reservoir of daring. It almost seems that those who have yet to discover the known are particularly equipped for dealing with the unknown. The unlearned have often rushed in where the learned feared to tread, and it is the credulous who are tempted to attempt the impossible. They know not whither they are going, and give chance a chance." — Eric Hoffer
Maybe. But most of the time they just fuck things up.
Neal Deesit says:
@ sluggo , October 3rd, 2013 at 8:06 am: "Once you get past that point, the guy that had Osama Bin Laden whacked Godfather style comes out."
Imagine that 30 or so radical Islamists in Yemen had somehow harmed the U.S as badly as the shutdown has. Congressional Republicans, including the 30 or so Teabaggers, would be screaming for Obama to send in the SEALs to do their "double tap" dance.
lless says:
True, but… There is a secondary reality at work that sooner or later dooms them by a thousand self inflicted cuts. On the face of it they have written off women. I think you correctly point to poor underemployed white males as a bunker constituency. They have cut extended unemployment benefits and foodstamps. There is talk of unwinding the Earned Income Tax Credit. They fail to fund and try to close chemical dependency programs and criminalize addiction. They proffer sin taxes galore. They blame the borrowers for the banking collapse. They want to close the doors of the bankruptcy courts. You just can't make life miserable for your core constituents and expect none of them to notice.
Xynzee says:
Here's my friend's take down of why the US political system is so FUBAR'd at the moment. Pretty good observation for an outsider:
"Alternatively, just recognise that the United States was formed to protect the property rights of plutocratic planters. It wasn't designed for anyone else. They devised an experimental constitution that guaranteed weak, immobile domestic government, with plenty of powers for the substitute king when a external problem surfaced. The whole system is meant to make reform and responsible government extremely difficult, very convenient for planters. The only way to fix it is to abolish the presidency or limit the powers of congress. Stalemates are inevitable when no one is responsible for the government. The system can only work when there is a culture of co-operation, but the constitution didn't think about this."
TLDR: the founding fathers intentionally weighted the system to their benefit, and is predicated on the idea that (rich) people are awesome and will be excellent to each other.
Xynzee says:
@Iles:
The issue is that in some ways this is exactly what they want. The goal is to destroy the central government and create a state of anarchy.
People are elected into office on a platform of torching the village, then when they torch the village they stand back and scream: "See the Gub'min' torched the village! You can't trust the Gub'min'!!"
In the end it's not the party that will take the hit, it's the government (and us) that's going to take it.
Could you imagine Coke putting in place a Board-of-Directors composed of people morally opposed to soft drinks and vow to destroy the soft drink arm of the company? Yet, that's what we get with these idiots.
Xynzee says:
Is the end game of this the Debt Ceiling fight, and then to force a change to Deferred Benefits (Soc.Sec. Medicare)?
This way the parties on both sides can say, "we had to do something."
Sounds ominous to me, and a little too coincidental to me.
joel hanes says:
Reagan knew perfectly well that the states would not pick up the slack, because as Governor, he'd already pulled the same trick in California a few years before. The justification was "freedom" — the conceit being that many in the state mental hospitals had been involuntarily committed, and were being held against their wills, a form of imprisonment, without having been convicted of anything, and with no recourse to the courts. And, you know, after reading One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest a couple time, and if one had only a passing familiarity with the mentally ill, that's got a surface plausibility.
I hope the schizophrenic guy living in the bushes down by the city park enjoys his freedom through the winter rain season again. I give him a little money when I see him, but he really needs a safe and warm place to live, and he's incapbable of arranging that for himself.
c u n d gulag says:
joel hanes,
Are you sure he's still out there at the park, or is he in a nice house?
The US House of Representatives.
Bernard says:
it is definitely true that white Southerners will vote Tea Party just to stop the Blacks. that's why we don't have Regional Transit here in New Orleans, Keeps the Blacks out of the Rich white neighborhoods. and make the poor whites pay to go anywhere, you must have a car. and it works since St. Reagan.
Same thing for Schools, get rid of Public Education, through "Charter" Schools.
these White Southern Republicans and Tea Nuts are not stupid. With all the money from the Koch Bros/Dick Armey funding the Tea Party/Republican Reps/Sens, it works like a charm. Keep All those Dumb White Folks Scared. The Blacks are coming for their Daughters, too.
make a deal with the Devil/Fear and stupidity wins as we have seen for the last 40 years. Thanks, St. Reagan, Bush
no matter what anyone says. the Fear of the Black man by White Republicans has been working wonders.
JohnR says:
Yup, as horrible as it is, I keep thinking that it might have been a bad thing to exempt SS payments from the shutdown. Right now people are hurting, but slowly and mostly under the radar, and mostly the Wrong Sort of people. No Social Security checks, though, and the torches and pitchforks come out. I'm inclined to think a short, sharp shock will be less harmful to us all than a protracted, agonizing dip into boiling oil.
Also, too, @ TimH: I dunno – I'd go for Dahmer. At least he ate what he killed, and wasn't as crazy as Ted Nugent; that puts him a lot further up the ladder than any of the GOP politicians in my book, who kill things just for fun and let them rot where they lie. He wasn't any more psychopathic than most of the House delegation, either.
Ursula says:
Dahmer was also fully aware of what he was. I recall when he gave testimony and said that if he was allowed to be free, he would kill again. As an elected official, he would be under semi-constant surveilance and could get healthcare to help his homicidal urges.
guttedleafsfan says:
Sorry, I thought this was No Politics Friday. Forgot that right now weekends are shut down and serve the damn moochers right.
Khaled says:
@Bernard- one of the Dayton suburbs recently went through a whole tantrum throwing routine because the metro bus line wanted to put a stop by a mall in the suburb. The lilly-white suburb of course whined about congestion, but everyone knew it was because they were afraid of the poor black people from the city coming to their mall. It was made even more shameful because students at nearby Wright State had to walk over a interstate bridge that didn't have a sidewalk to get to the mall for part-time jobs, etc instead of being able to hop on a bus. Some local groups sued over it, and I think after all is said and done, the mall is getting the bus stop after all- only after reinforcing stereotypes.
bb in GA says:
Does anyone here have any experience on the wrong end of a gun or a knife or suffered an ass whuppin'?
I do and I am sure that others who have had that experience care little what is the major pigment in the skin of the sumbitch holding the piece, the knife, or whose knuckles are hurtling towards your face.
//bb
c u n d gulag says:
bb,
Maybe not at the time of the incident.
But if you survive, are you trying to tell me that later that if that attacker was from another race, you wouldn't remember, or care – or, maybe hold a grudge?
I'm sure there are people who don't, of won't, care. But in this country, I don't think they're anywhere near a majority – from any race.
Race is still a major issue in this country – despite the claims that the election of President Obama means that we're now a post-racial country.
And usually the ones who keep repeating that meme, are really racists, trying to hide their inner-racist. And their argument seems to imply that, by noticing race, YOU'RE the REAL racist, and not them!
I'd argue that race is just about as divisive today, as it was 50, or 100, or 150 years ago.
I'd go into a lengthy comment, but I'm pooped – we just had my aunt, uncle, cousin, and his two little boys over for a long brunch. And, after 3 days of cleaning and shopping and cooking, I'm exhausted – so, I'll save you all from another one of my lengthy word-turds.
bb in GA says:
Ed and Left of Center Contributors:
Why does Fox news vex y'all so much?
Their top rated program is Bill O'Pompous w/ about 2.6E06 TeeVee sets connected. The MSM evening news is still about 5 times that. I don't think MSNBC fires up the Right near as much as what "Faux Noise' does the Left.
//bb